Talk:Pogrom

Cleanup

The section Pogrom#Selected list has grown far beyond its inclusion criteria, "This is a partial list of events for which one of the commonly accepted names includes the word "pogrom"".

The section is already marked for needing citations. I have marked some events as citation needed. I will add sources as I find them but some I'm fairly certain will be deleted.

If you are looking for sources, please note here and I will refrain for a reasonable time from deleting until you ref; if you are unable to establish that Pogrom‎ is one of the commonly accepted names for the event please delete.

I will delete individual list items, not groups, so the delete so they can be restored individually if references are found.  // Timothy :: talk  20:45, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks in advance for working on this. Besides removing uncited entries, we should also check carefully whether cited sources actually include the term "pogrom" - if not, the corresponding example may well be original research. And for those that do, WP:NPOV may still require to determine whether that view is held widely enough to warrant inclusion in this article, and to attribute it. Regards, HaeB (talk) 21:10, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

The problem isn't the list. The problem is the article. This is overwhelmingly an article on anti-Jewish riots. If the WP:SCOPE is supposed to go beyond that, it needs to be entirely rewritten to cull the WP:UNDUE focus on anti-Jewish riots. If the first sentence is correct for the focus of the article, sources shouldn't need to specifically use the word "pogrom"; any fairly spontaneous ground-up anti-anyone riot would count. The history section should then cover most anti-anyone bigotry on the planet.

Seems wrong to me. The solution isn't culling the list by which journalists happen to bring up the word "pogrom". The solution is just making it clear that this is an article on Russian anti-Jewish riots and, by extension, anti-Jewish riots more generally from the WP:LEADSENTENCE and then acknowledging (briefly further down in the lead and in a single section towards the bottom later on) that, by extension, the word does get used by analogy in some other contexts. Those other contexts should be linked to their separate articles, not listed here in any detail at all. — LlywelynII 21:57, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

The Hamas-initiated attacks, 7 October 2023 section is a fucking joke, it should be removed entirely. 161.97.194.98 (talk) 02:02, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Completely agree. Israel’s atrocities and decades long crimes blowing up in their faces for one day in the form of a military attack and historical riots and massacres against Jews because they were kept being used a scapegoat for all and any problem it’s not comparable whatsoever and the inclusion of the military raid in this, like you said, is a complete joke The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 06:39, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Keep that section but add context. The 7 October attack on the Negev doesn't fit the criteria for the table (the event name doesn't include pogrom). But I think it would be useful to keep the written section with added context, because if we just delete it, it will keep re-appearing with no context. And some of that needed context is missing events that should be included. The Huwara pogrom / Huwara rampage and other West Bank attacks by Israeli settlers. These attacks were actually more widely referred to as Pogroms than 7 October - including in multiple Israeli sources and big USA news outlets - including by the IDF commander in the West Bank. If we try to include those, which we should, the 7 October bit will definitely keep reappearing. MWQs (talk) 03:09, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

It would be better to make the page more comprehensive than narrow the scope. A pogrom is much more specific than just "any bigotry anywhere". It is a violent attack on people and property, belonging to an already marginalised minority, over a short period of time, committed by people who aren't officially part of military or security services, but encouraged or ignored by law enforcement or the military. This type of violence has historically been disproportionately aimed at Jews, so the article focusing on antisemitism is not wp:undue.

There would not be very many that we need to add, If we include only events that fit a narrow definition of a pogrom and are referred to as pogroms in non-fringe sources. I am only aware of two events like that targeting non-Jewish populations in Gujarat and Hawara, both associated with a series violent events. There would be others I am not aware of, but probably fewer than what is here already.

MWQs (talk) 04:41, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

The size of the table: Too much text makes the table hard to navigate. It should link to the main page for the event or a section above, instead of having a whole paragraph in the last column. For any that have sources, but don't have their own wiki page, maybe most of the text should be moved up to the body of the text? MWQs (talk) 03:50, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

References