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AC/DC[edit]

AC/DC (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

As of 25 May 2024, 13:36 (UTC), this page is active and open for discussion. An FAC coordinator will be responsible for closing the nomination.
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Nominator(s): VAUGHAN J. (t · c) and shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:23, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Australian rock band AC/DC, first widely known about their seventh studio album Back in Black (1980), an album in tribute to one of their members Bon Scott, due to him dying of alcohol poisoning. The article was created in 2002 by an IP user (203.36.248.17), first promoted to GA in 2006 by No-Bullet, and promoted to FA in 2007 also by No-Bullet, which then sadly got demoted in 2018. Five years later, me and shaidar cuebiyar have been working hard cleaning up the article to look like what it is now, and it is currently promoted to GA since 29 December 2023.

This is my second time nominating this article to FAC, because I withdrawed the last one that I first nominated, since there was a lot that needed to be fixed. The PR didn't work out since there was no reviewers 1 month after opening, but has been copyedited from GOCE (thanks to Mox Eden). So all feedback, constructive criticism, and suggestions are all welcome and very much appreciated. — VAUGHAN J. (t · c) 04:23, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review[edit]

750h[edit]

this will be the longest article I'll leave comments on so it might take a while. it's a good article from first glance. 750h+ 03:43, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

750h+: Not to bother you; is there still more comments to come or is that all? — VAUGHAN J. (t · c) 07:33, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll do the rest soon. These are just first-glance comments; more extensive comments might come soon. 750h+ 07:38, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
lede
  • Their current line-up comprises Angus, bass... – last name should always be used. Change "Angus" to "Young". i've just realised there's two "Young"s.
  • I was about to say... — VJ

more soon

  • They recruited English singer Johnson as their new front man. – front man should be one word (frontman).
  • Done. — VJ
  • The band's line-up remained the same for 20 years until 2014, when Malcolm retired due to early-onset dementia.. – comma isn't needed
  • Done. — VJ
history
  • ..developed a variety of genres, which included a harder blues rock style dubbed.. – i think "blues rock" should be hyphenated
  • Upon formation, Malcolm and Angus had developed the band's name after Margaret pointed out the symbol.. – remove "had"
  • Done. — VJ
  • I was just flicking it, when Malcolm came up to me and started slagging Sabbath..." – remove the comma.
  • Done. — VJ
  • With Johnson, the group completed the songwriting previously begun – change "previously begun" to "began"
  • Done. — VJ
  • for the Rock Band series by means of a Wal-Mart-exclusive retail disc – replace "by means of" with something simpler such as "using" or "through".
  • Done. — VJ
  • "It's been what I've known for the past 40 years, but after this tour I'm backing off add a comma after tour
  • Done. — VJ
musical style
  • [Scott] revelled in the lifestyle. Somehow he rose above all the substance abuse to become the ultimate rock and roll front man." ==> "[Scott] revelled in the lifestyle. Somehow he rose above all the substance abuse to become the ultimate rock and roll [frontman]."
  • Done. — VJ
  • However, there are people who will say that they are indisputably ==> "However, some people say that they are indisputably"
  • I'm keeping it that way because it's from a quote from McParland. — VJ
  • While AC/DC has referenced the underworld and they have given their remove "they".
  • See above. — VJ
legacy
  • Disco was huge and punk and new wave were ascendant, and along came this AC/DC record which just destroyed everybody. remove the comma
  • Done. — VJ
  • Gene Simmons of hard rock contemporaries Kiss remarked that, "A lot of people look the same remove "that" after remarked
  • Done. — VJ
  • David Marchese from Vulture wrote that, "Regardless of the lyricist remove the comma and decapitalise the word "Regardless".
  • Done. — VJ
  • she believed it would be "daft as opposed to damaging" for female listeners if they can understand the change "can" to could"
  • Done. — VJ
  • In spite of the "unpleasant sneering quality" of change "In spite of" to "Despite".
  • Done. — VJ
  • with AC/DC's name,[289] arriving at the conclusion that AC/DC actually stood for Anti-Christ/Devil's Child or Devil's Children. change "arriving at the conclusion" to "concluding". Remove the word "actually" too.
  • Done. — VJ
verdict
  • honestly i think it's a great article and is worthy of FA status; i don't have any more "extensive comments" as I believe the other reviewer has addressed them all, @Vaughan J.:.
thanks! another one's coming soon! and with the comments you didn't answer, i didn't realise those were quotes. with that, i think you'll be seeing a support from me. 750h+ 08:08, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cheers. — VAUGHAN J. (t · c) 10:03, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ajpolino[edit]

It's great to see an article on such a substantial topic here. Just some drive-by comments for now; I hope to have time for a more thorough review soon:

  • There are often clumps of references supporting relatively simple statements – e.g. "In November 1973" [two references that both support that date], "Zorro" [three references]. I'd suggest trimming unnecessary references back to your most reliable/preferred support for a given claim. Reference piles make the article a challenge to review (as they make source-checking a pain in the ass) and update, and they don't do the reader any particular favors.
  • Done. — VJ
  • It looks like this is not done? Let me know if the request is unclear. Ajpolino (talk) 06:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now it is done. I didn't realise that it was not done before I posted that it was done 🙃 — VJ
  • This is still not done. Can you help me understand how you read my request, and what you did? We're clearly not on the same page. I'm asking you to trim unnecessary references throughout the article. I gave two examples. For one ("November 1973") you kept all the references but moved them to the end of the sentence. For the other ("Zorro") it's still followed by three references, two of which are unnecessary. These were just two examples that I checked (where every citation contained the information being referenced, and so only one was necessary). I see many more reference piles that I suspect could also be trimmed. Ajpolino (talk) 00:33, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ohhhhhh! Gotcha. Done that now. — VJ
  • "Before formation... after passing an audition." a confusingly long sentence. Can it be split up or reworded?
  • Has been split by shaidar cuebiyar. — VJ
  • "after Margaret pointed out" we don't learn who Margaret is until the next paragraph.
  • Fixed. — VJ
  • "AC from DC – i.e., "AC⚡︎DC"," the text is clear without the "i.e." statement; also it's adjacent to the image of the Huerta logo.
  • Done. — VJ
  • "Adam Behr of The Bulletin determined" - the verb "determined" doesn't seem quite right here.
  • Done by shaidar cuebiyar. — VJ
  • "Evans and Loughlin were incompatible" does the book clarify at all what this means?
  • Done by shaidar cuebiyar. — VJ
  • "Burgess later claimed his drink had been tampered with" is this important to include? Suggest cutting.
  • Removed by shaidar cuebiyar. — VJ
  • "glam rock image, which was favoured by contemporary Melbourne bands Skyhooks and Hush; instead, they" this comparison seems extraneous to the story.
  • Done by shaidar cuebiyar. — VJ
  • "Scott had worked as a driver for the group in that city until an "
  • Done. — VJ
  • It's odd to read "George Young and Harry Vanda as the producers" and then just a few paragraphs later "with Vanda & Young producing" (same people, now stylized, with a separate wikilink to the separate article about their career as a duo). I briefly assumed they were new characters in the story.
  • Done. — VJ
  • "Matters often questioned the Young brothers' decisions and admitted to being "lazy" and "cranky"." - Similar to Burgess' much-later claim above, I'm not sure this adds much to the story.
  • I've trimmed this one back to "Matters had quarrelled with the Young brothers' decisions."shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do we know why Bailey and Clack were fired?
  • Unfortunately not. There's no sources backing up why they got fired. — VJ
  • "setting the line-up, which lasted", suggest "setting the line-up that lasted" (i.e. removing the pause) which I think flows a bit better.
  • Done. — VJ

Have to run now, but will hopefully return soon for more. Ajpolino (talk) 17:46, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

shaidar cuebiyar: are you able to do the rest? — VAUGHAN J. (t · c) 03:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done (mostly).shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:25, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A few more.

  • In general, the article is quite long, currently around 9600 words – which Wikipedia:Article_size#Size_guideline classifies "probably should be divided or trimmed". Consider places where removing extra detail can focus the main storyline and improve the reading experience. I note a few examples that seemed extraneous to me, but you may be better able to differentiate the main thread from extra tidbits.
  • "They released the second single, "It's a Long Way to the Top (If You Wanna Rock 'n' Roll)"..." - This comes at the reader quickly. Do we know anything about the period between High Voltage and T.N.T.? We get some detail about the recording of the former, but nothing for the latter.
  • Done by shaidar cuebiyar. — VJ
  • The page range for current ref 53 (Browning 2014, pp. 100–256.) is excessively long. Can you narrow the page range at all (splitting up into several refs if you need to?).
  • There is only one ref that has the pages 100–256. Fixed it anyway. — VJ
  • "Their reputation managed to survive the punk upheavals and they maintained a cult following in the UK." Doesn't seem to add much to the story in its current form; suggest cutting or reformulating.
  • Removed by shaidar cuebiyar. — VJ
  • "and sold three million copies in the US by 2005, according to the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA)" this statistic seems kind of random, both in its US focus (while the story has us in the UK) and in the specific date of 2005. Suggest cutting or replacing if possible (you could even support saying "eventually going on to sell over three million copies")
  • Done. — VJ
  • "However, their appearance at the 1976 Reading Festival in August did not impress the crowd." is this of lasting importance to their story?
  • Removed by shaidar cuebiyar. — VJ
  • "Butler denied the allegations... started slagging Sabbath..."" I'm not sure the article really benefits from Butler's account, which is taken 40 years after the fact. I think the previous sentence says all we need to hear.
  • Removed. — VJ
  • The article states that the Young brothers haven't given a reason for Evans' firing; Griffiths gives a weird reason; it informs us that Evans wrote an autobiography that covers the incident, but then leaves us to wonder what Evans' autobiography said the reason was! What does Evans say? (or if it's not worth including, some of the earlier detail could probably be trimmed so we're not left hanging so harshly).
  • "Evans returned to Australia, where he joined fellow hard rock group Finch" this seems potentially unimportant and cuttable.
  • Done. — VJ
  • "AC/DC's first...,[72] two years before they played..." Suggest splitting this into two sentences. With "...1975.[72] Two years later they played..." this would flow into the next sentence more smoothly.
  • Done. — VJ
  • "which appeared on 27 July" appeared seems an odd verb; made me think I'd misunderstood and it was a television special.
  • Done. — VJ
  • " Eddie Van Halen noted this as his favourite AC/DC record, along with Powerage." seems unimportant to the article.
  • Removed. — VJ
  • "Angus later recalled, "I remember ... can find him." - this quote is very long, and I don't think it adds much.
  • Done by shaidar quebiyar. — VJ
  • "Simon Kirke of Free and Bad Company and Paul Thompson of Roxy Music were two drummers who auditioned." Would suggest cutting, or merging it in a sentence about the auditions so it doesn't seem like abrupt extraneous information.
  • Done. — VJ
  • "As a result of this incident, Salt Palace eliminated festival seating for future events." not sure this tidbit is worth including.

Will return soon with more! Ajpolino (talk) 06:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • "The band performed it live when they appeared as a musical guest on Saturday Night Live on 18 March 2000." is this of lasting importance?
  • Removed by shaidar quebiyar. — VJ
  • "presented by Aerosmith vocalist Steven Tyler" is this important?
  • Removed by shaidar quebiyar. — VJ
  • " AC/DC made their video game debut on Rock Band 2, with "Let There Be Rock" included as a playable track." is this important? I assume (though I really don't know) that the band didn't have to do anything for this, but rather the game publisher paid someone for the rights to the song?
  • Ditto the next sentence *"The setlist... Rock Band Track Pack."
  • All removed by shaidar quebiyar. — VJ
  • "On 15 August, AC/DC recorded a video for "Rock 'n' Roll Train" in London, with a special selection of fans invited to participate." Is this important?
  • Done. — VJ
  • At this point the article is feeling like a series of press release snippets organized chronologically, rather than a cohesive narrative about the band. I'd suggest focusing in on the events and circumstances described by broader retrospective sources, using contemporaneous news blurbs just to fill out precious details. Since you're writing about such a famous modern topic, there will be endless news snippets on everything AC/DC-related; not all of it merits inclusion here.
  • "AC/DC rescheduled six shows on 25 September 2009 for Johnson's recovery from a medical procedure." is this of lasting importance?
  • Removed. — VJ

I'll stop here for now. At this point I think the article would benefit from some trimming to improve readability and highlight the main thread of AC/DC's story. I think the article currently doesn't quite meet FAC criterion #4 "It stays focused on the main topic without going into unnecessary detail" or 1a "its prose is engaging and of a professional standard". I'd suggest giving the article a good look head-to-toe with an eye towards those things. I'm happy to give more examples, or to revisit and reassess later; just ping me if that would be helpful. For now, I'll have to regrettably oppose this article's FAC candidacy. Best, Ajpolino (talk) 00:54, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

shaidar cuebiyar: Hopefully you are able to sort out the remaining issues. — VAUGHAN J. (t · c) 01:17, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a go at some of these. Did the recent GOCE suggest any of this trimming? As Ajpolino has volunteered to provide further examples of improving this article's focus, I'd ask him to put his oppose on hold and let us continue as we have done. shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:51, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
shaidar cuebiyar: Nope. They just copyedit or reword things. — VAUGHAN J. (t · c) 07:17, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Ajpolino. May I request to put your oppose on hold, and some further assistance in getting the article more focused? — VAUGHAN J. (t · c) 06:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, I'll continue with comments in the next day or two. There's not really meaning to putting an oppose "on hold" here. It would be most helpful if some other reviewers could have a look at the article. If no one else shares my concern, then I'm off base and you can ignore me. If others think the same, then we'd have more opinions on how to get the article cleaned up and ready to shine. Ajpolino (talk) 12:13, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cheers. — VAUGHAN J. (t · c) 23:54, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, comments from first pass, continued:

  • Consider breaking strict chronological order to discuss a given event in its entirety. Two examples close to each other:
  • "The Black Ice World Tour was announced on 11 September and began on 28 October in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania... [5 sentences unrelated to the tour]... and closed the Black Ice World Tour in Bilbao, Spain, on 28 June 2010, after 20 months in which the band went to 108 cities in over 28 countries, with an estimated total audience of over five million."
  • "Three concerts in December 2009 at the River Plate Stadium in Argentina were released as a DVD Live at River Plate on 10 May 2011... [2 unrelated sentences]... AC/DC released their first live album in 20 years, Live at River Plate, on 19 November 2012."
  • "Due to Malcolm's severe illness..." comes as a surprise since we hadn't heard anything about him being unwell since taking time off for alcohol issues in the late 80s (a few sections ago). Can you add any more context here? You say fans speculated the group could disband; what was that based on?
  • I've added more information on Malcolm's health in previous section and reworded the start of this section. Hopefully it ties together better and is less jarring.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:22, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • As above, I'll list material that seemed unimportant and cuttable. Perhaps it instead just needs more context to integrate it into the narrative. Perhaps it's best to cut it:
  • "Rudd released his first solo album, Head Job, on 29 August 2014."
  • Removed. — VJ
  • "Rudd pleaded... of home detention." this could be condensed a bit.
  • Were George Young and Denis Loughlin involved with the band in their later lives? If yes, perhaps you could add some context to the point where they die, to describe how that impacted the group. If not, I don't think their deaths need to be listed in this article.
  • George was involved with the band in 2000, producing Stiff Upper Lip. I'll delete the irrelevant people that was not later involved. — VJ
  • "On 28 September 2020, the band updated their social media accounts with a short video clip depicting a neon light in the shape of the band's lightning bolt logo. This led to speculation that they were due to announce their "comeback, possibly as early as this week or next week."" is the fact that they teased their reunion two days before announcing it of lasting importance?
  • "The band have dropped clues, giving "speculation" that they would be going on another tour in 2024,[234] as the mayor of Munich, Dieter Reiter, confirmed that the band had booked a show in the Olympic Stadium for 12 June 2024." similarly, the several sentences of teaser to the current tour could be condensed.
  • "The impact of Australian pub rock on AC/DC was documented on ABC's Long Way to the Top (2001)." we care that pub rock influenced AC/DC (described earlier), but I don't know if we care that ABC documented that influence.
  • Angus's reflection occurred on Episode 4 of that documentary series. The series is titled for one of AC/DC's local hits and details a history of Australian rock music from 1950s to 2000s. I believe the context for his commentary aligns with how his group was a part of the 1970s pub rock movement in Australia. It should remain.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:52, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They sold over 1.3 million CDs in the US during 2007, despite not having released a new album since 2000 at that point" seems arbitrary to give us just 2007 US sales figures
  • Done. — VJ
  • "is due to begin on 17 May" I assume this has now begun?
  • Done. — VJ
  • "The Canberra Times' Tony Catterall... musically better"." This reads oddly as a comment about the album TNT in the midst of a retrospective on AC/DC's career. Consider rephrasing or removing.
  • As shown, this is a 1976 comment by an Australian music journalist. Contemporaneous reviews of their early work is very rare. Huge volumes exist of commentaries post-1980 but few accuse AC/DC of being punk rockers or that Buster Brown were a better band. Catterall's comments are not positive and provide balance to the analysis of AC/DC's musical style.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:02, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "AC/DC's music has been variously described..." consider flipping the order of this paragraph and the one before it.
  • Done. — VJ

That got me to the end of my first readthrough. Once you've made it through these I'm happy to take another look – though as I said above, hopefully by then other editors will have shared their thoughts on the article. Best, Ajpolino (talk) 03:30, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

shaidar cuebiyar: Hopefully you'll be free. — VAUGHAN J. (t · c) 04:40, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Vaughan J.: I've had a go at most of these, you'll have to tidy up any of my messes. Enjoy. shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:51, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No messes to tidy. You're all good. 👍 — VAUGHAN J. (t · c) 06:51, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ajpolino: Me and shaidar have got everything sorted except a few comments. — VAUGHAN J. (t · c) 06:51, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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