Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink

WikiProject Food and Drink  Discussion

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Notability guidelines for food items

Hello everyone, I think we need to make it more clear that recipes are not suitable sources for food articles. I've nominated several different food articles (mainly cakes and salads) that have absolutely no notability and still have to explain to editors that the existence of recipes for a food doesn't make that specific food notable. Can we work on an essay or something to put this into writing somewhere? BaduFerreira (talk) 02:44, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it will help, because WP:Nobody reads the directions.

But if you want to move in that direction, you'd probably need to spell out exactly what counts as "a recipe" and what doesn't. Otherwise, some editors will say "Those four paragraphs of text explaining the history and cultural significance of this dish are part of 'the recipe' and don't count towards notability" and others will take the opposite extreme, and you'll really be no better off than you are now. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:33, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

I would support having this as a guideline/essay, but similarly to what @WhatamIdoing mentioned, I also feel like the distinction would be difficult to make. For example, I recently used this source: [1]. This page contains an introductory text and a recipe - how should we decide if pages like this are okay?

Another concern I have is what reliable sources can be used for articles in this Wikiproject if no recipes are allowed. There might be some reliable books on cuisines and similar cooking/food-related topics that are not just a collection of recipes, but I suspect the majority of editors don't have access to those.

One idea is that we might want to allow recipes for certain content, but not for all. For example, they could be insufficient to establish notability.

Overall, I feel like what we're missing is not just a guideline/essay for avoiding recipes, but a more comprehensive one that explains what sources to use for articles about food and drink, where WP:RS might be especially hard to satisfy. Bendegúz Ács (talk) 20:59, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Beginning on your account's six-month anniversary, you'll be able to log in to Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library and find some great sources. I suggest starting by finding the "Oxford Reference" series in the list of resources. Click on that to access the collection, which has some great encyclopedias about food and drink. Then search for the name of the article you're working on.

Speaking of simple rules of thumb for notability, if there's an entry in any of their food/drink encyclopedias, that should probably be taken as proof of notability by itself. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:42, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't see any issue with that source. The Guardian is a reliable publisher and that source is written by a seemingly notable food critic Joanna Blythman. My issue with using recipes as sources are the overwhelming amount of recipes that are hosted on personal blogs that I've found used as sources for Wikipedia articles. For example, I recently came across Cassava cake and Bánh khoai mì which suffer from this issue of using personal blog recipes for the bulk of their article content. I won't be nominating these for deletion as I don't have the cultural or linguistic background to properly gauge whether these specific dishes are notable, but it does worry me that we potentially have thousands of articles that suffer from this issue of improper sourcing potentially lending undeserved notability. BaduFerreira (talk) 01:12, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

I think generally we need to consider what is really a distinct food product and what is a variation of something else. Many of the articles you've nominated already fell into a particular concept but just used particular ingredients in a particular way, so the difference could be easily covered in another article. Other examples I've merged are Seafood cocktail and Escabeche oriental. About recipes, we need to consider if it's from a journalistic source with an edited description or something out of a cookbook, whether the food is a specific and widely identifiable or closely related to a broader concept. Reywas92^Talk 21:50, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

I've noticed a number of separate articles that just need someone to boldly merge them into Nut roll. The specific content usually amounts to a nut roll, but the editor's grandmother was from a different country, so it has a different name and perhaps a variation of one or two ingredients. I expect that's true for many others. There's no value in deleting them; they just need Wikipedia:Merging. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:46, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree with your assessment of what a proper recipe-containing source is. Ultimately, this is just a matter of WP:GNG. Reliable sources that speak in-depth about a specific dish or meal and contain a recipe are fine, whereas "sources" that are hosted on someone's blog about how to bake some specific cake or prepare some stew are not. BaduFerreira (talk) 01:16, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Personal blogs are generally not reliable, unless they meet the exceptions outlined in WP:SPS.

However, WP:NEXIST says that what matters is whether the real world has the sources (newspapers, magazines, books, academic journals...), and not whether the current version of the Wikipedia article cites sources that demonstrate notability. When you see a Wikipedia article sourced entirely to personal blogs, that may be annoying, but it doesn't tell us anything about whether the subject is notable. Unfortunately, for foods, a useful WP:BEFORE search sometimes requires some specialized knowledge. A simple web search usually produces lots of unreliable (or just useless) sources. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:37, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

New list of lists

• Lists of Michelin starred restaurants

Improvements welcome! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:03, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Why not a navigation template? The Banner talk 15:23, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Some of these are already linked at Michelin_Guide#Guides. I'd suggest adding any missing and redirecting. Reywas92^Talk 22:32, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Subway article updates

Hello editors,

My name is Paige, and I work for Subway and have requested updates to the article due to my COI. I have had an open request on the Subway Talk page for a while now and I thought editors here at Wikiproject Food and Drink would be interested in it, especially regarding updates to Subway's menu. Editors felt my proposed updates sounded too promotional, but when I sought feedback, I did not get a response on how to improve it. I think these updates will help the page and I would like to work with editors to update the menu in a way that is not promotional. I can answer any question on the Talk page. Thank you PHSubway (talk) 13:25, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Gnudi

Hi guys, would anyone like to help me with this page? JacktheBrown (talk) 01:44, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi, @JackkBrown. Have you looked at w:it:Gnudi (gastronomia)? It says something about the regions of Tuscany where the dish originated from. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:14, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Bagna càuda

Bagna càuda originated in Lower Piedmont, a geographical region of Piedmont, Italy. See also: Talk:Bagna càuda. JacktheBrown (talk) 17:27, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Looking for independent editors to review Sysco History draft

Hello, I'm an employee at the food and equipment distributor Sysco, and I'm seeking to improve the company article. I recently placed an edit request on the Sysco Talk page that invites editors to review my rewrite of the History section. That section is less than perfect, at the moment. It doesn't contain any information about the company's history pre-1981 (it was founded in 1969) and some of its content lacks citation. My draft expands the section and, I hope, makes it stronger by ensuring that every claim is backed up by a quality source or two. You can view my request by following this link. I'm open to any feedback independent editors may have. Thank you! KM at Sysco (talk) 01:57, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Sentence without source

If interested, see this discussion: Talk:Ciceri e tria#Unclear and unverified sentence. JacktheBrown (talk) 21:24, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

WikiProject

I have created Draft:WikiProject food and drink industry in England, this project is very specific and concentrated on the main article Food and drink industry in England. I would like to extend an invitation to join the Wikiproject and help to improve manage and expand the articles within this project. ChefBear01 (talk) 08:06, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Chantilly cake#Requested move 1 May 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Chantilly cake#Requested move 1 May 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 04:15, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Coffee businesses with no mention of coca-cola in the coca-cola company template

The list is found in Template:The_Coca-Cola_Company :

• Caribou Coffee ?
• Costa Coffee Y
• Dunkin' Donuts ?
• Georgia
• illy

I did not check all of them, but Caribou and Dunkin' Donuts do not mention Coca-Cola or anything close. Costa Coffee is discussed in the article. So, this one is fine. It will be good to know the criteria used. Dominic Mayers (talk) 19:29, 8 May 2024 (UTC)